I am arguing for it without appealing to religion, but my replies are kind of scattered and drowned out by requests for them. This whole thread is really hard to navigate. Shouldn't have started it out the way I did. Lesson learned.
No, you're stating your opinion without appealing to religion, but you haven't argued for it at all.
Basically, you stepped into a community that heavily leans atheist and rationalist, stated an opinion based on religion that the community disagrees with, and said that this makes you feel like an outsider. All I can say is, duh. And if you aren't interested in actually defending that opinion, what is the point? As far as I can tell, you were just looking for a little hit of persecution and martyrdom.
3 so obviously follows from 1 that anyone who thinks contraception is a good thing clearly does not believe 1. It's so direct that it doesn't really qualify as an argument, but merely a restatement of the original position.
It's like saying that spheres are good, and when asked why, saying that they're three-dimensional and round, and three-dimensional round things are good. Is that an argument? I don't really think so. An argument is where you state your reasoning in such a way that it could, at least potentially, convince the other person. Merely stating one of your opinions that happens to be related to another of your opinions doesn't qualify.
Personally, for #1, I don't think there's anything good or bad about a birth. More or fewer births, by themselves, don't matter. They take on good or bad qualities based on the context in which they happen. Preventing a birth before anything related even happens is not by itself good or bad, it's just something that happens. I'd wager most of the others on the "pro-contraception" side think likewise.
> It's so direct that it doesn't really qualify as an argument.
Do you see how that cuts both ways?
The original point was about disagreeing, on ethical grounds, with the idea that contraceptives are essential parts of sustainability initiatives. There really isn't a good counterargument to that objection since both sides really rest on qualitative opinions.
I thought I gave some good support for my position. The alternatives are contraception, killing people, or an Earth covered deep in human beings. That seems like a fine counterargument to me. It may not necessarily work, but it's at least an argument.
There's nothing wrong with arguing on ethical grounds, but you need to actually show how something is ethical, not just say "it just is" as is effectively being done here.
I don't think philosophical arguments are very alien to HN. They're usually just applied to different problems, like what the best programming paradigm is, or how security should best be implemented in the kernel, or what's the best attitude to found your start-up on, etc.
I thought I was. Which means there's a disconnect somewhere, either in your brain or mine. I won't venture to guess which, considering it could be in mine, rendering my reasoning invalid. (Assuming that makes sense.)
Your position may be arguable without religion, but you're not doing that.