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So, using Polestar as a reference as it's both a vehicle that I've worked on, and one that I personally drive.

> Maybe they've got a test fleet, but it accepts code signed with the test build key.

Polestar solves this by only delivering signed updates to their vehicles. The vehicle headunit will refuse to flash a partition that isn't signed by the private key held by Polestar. Pulls double duty to prevent someone from flashing a malicious update, as well as corruption detection.

> Maybe they've got a watchdog timer, but it doesn't get configured until later in the boot process.

Based on what the Rivian reports are showing (Speedometer, cameras, safety systems are working), they likely are running their infotainment as a "virtual machine" within their systems. Again, something that Polestar does.

Implementation of a watchdog with a "sub-system" like this is relatively braindead simple.

> Maybe they've got A/B boot partitions, but trouble counting their boot attempts - maybe they don't have any writable storage that early in the boot process.

Generally, A/B partitioning is part of the bootloader, the first program that executes after the reset (on many modern processors) pin is released. This also leads to reboot counters and such being stored as part of the NVRAM that is available at boot.

Opinion: Maybe I'm biased, but maybe if you can't develop something yourself, there's reason for you to get an off the shelf option that handles a lot of these things.

Disclaimer: Former Googler, Worked closely with Automotive.



To be honest, I don't think Polestar set a very high bar for software quality. I am currently renting a Polestar 2 from Hertz, and sometimes the HUD doesn't work(it's 50/50 if it will turn on). That means, I don't see speed, battery charge, etc, while driving. Infotainment system is working though.


You're definitely correct in the fact that Polestar isn't the highest in software quality, but it was the examples of what they did right that I wanted to focus on.

They're garbage when it comes to their mobile app and some of the controls on the infotainment system.

> sometimes the HUD doesn't work(it's 50/50 if it will turn on).

You should definitely reach out to Hertz and ask for a car swap. Sounds like there's a bad connection between the display and the IHU. Both screens are operated by the same system, so it's unlikely to be a software failure.


Sounds ridiculous. How is that even road legal ?!?


Teslas occasionally need to reboot / hard reset their software too, when driving no less, and during that period all that information, and most of the controls, are unavailable (like windshield wipers, etc.)


> Teslas occasionally need to reboot / hard reset their software too, when driving no less

Move over, Microsoft, I think I've found an update policy I hate even more...


It's not related to update policy, it happens when the infotainment crashes.


You never had Windows force-reboot your system during an unrequested background update? Happened twice to me.


I've lost work to it because it killed my running VirtualBox sessions.


I feel you. I've had my machine blocked for 5 hours as it was pushing an update down my throat. Luckily it gave me a 2 minute warning before the initial reboot so that I could close everything down.

As that was during a client emergency, I had a very happy client that day.


>and most of the controls, are unavailable

All the controls related to driving are available. You can use turn signals, wipers, change lights, honk, shift gears, etc.

But you are correct that you don't see your speed during the reboot.


That's not true. You cannot shift gears in the Model X, S, or 3 without the touchscreen - the only way to change into or out of park, drive, or reverse is to swipe on the touchscreen. Only the Model Y has a stalk and it is being removed in the next version.

Also even on older Teslas lights are controlled exclusively via touchscreen.


There are captive buttons to change gears/direction in the X (2023) where the hazards are, as outlined in the docs: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-E9B387D...


I don't know what to tell you, you are wrong. I drive a Tesla, I have specifically checked all of what I mentioned when I had this (in my opinion highly problematic) issue happen to me. Have you actually tried it?

Even the new stalkless cars have gear selectors.


As someone who lives in a place where it rains almost every day for 9 months of the year, this reinforces my decision to never buy a Tesla. Does this kill the headlights too?


FWIW in two years of ownership we have never seen the touchscreen reboot while driving.


I had it happen two times this year, but the original comment is wrong, you can use the wipers (and also the headlights) while the touch screen is rebooting.


some ex-Boeing engineer probably came up with that 'fix'.[0]

[0]: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/faa-o...


There are some comments from Tesla developers in previous posts about what a shitshow the code is that runs Tesla cars and what the OTA process is.


Opinion: I'm a little confused as to how you're confused as to how test might not match prod sometimes.

Observation: "[if you write buggy software], there's reason for you to get an off the shelf option"

Question: Are you saying if they used Android Automotive this could never have happened?

Reference: similar event for Android, last week: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1538248-pixel-phones-using-m...

Disclaimer: Former Googler, did not Work closely with Automotive, Worked closely with Android.


Answer: To clarify, more that a company should stick to their core competencies unless there's a drastic need or opening in the market that could be filled (and to build a new competency).

In this particular case, there's nothing particularly unique that Rivian is doing with their Infotainment system that couldn't already be handled by an incumbent in the space, (Android Automotive, QNX, etc.) especially given how modular the systems themselves are.

As State Farm says, "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two".


> As State Farm says, "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two".

That's Farmers, delivered by J.K. Simmons, not State Farm. State Farm is Jake, in his khakis.


Rivian thinks of itself as a software company. The first thing you sign when you go to buy a vehicle is a software copyright notice IIRC. The first thing in the owner's manual is a notice that the software copyrights and intellectual property belong to Rivian, etc etc.


I'm not in the market but I would laugh all the way to the door if that happened.


> The vehicle headunit will refuse to flash a partition that isn't signed by the private key held by Polestar. Pulls double duty to prevent someone from flashing a malicious update, as well as corruption detection.

And of course preventing people from modifying and controlling hardware that they own, having paid 6 figures for (in the case of the Polestar 3 anyway). But that's table stakes for embedded systems in this day and age. Security for me, not for thee.




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